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ExpressionEngine/WordPress Comparison

Update: Wes Rice pointed out in the comments that some of the information in the PDF isn’t correct. He’s written up a nice list of information that addresses it. Lest I be a “fool,” I’m posting this update so everyone will scroll down to his excellent comment.

Earlier this week, Eric Lamb asked if there was sheet that showed the benefits of using ExpressionEngine versus WordPress. Well, apparently there is.

I hadn’t seen this one before but Alex Kendrick linked to to a PDF by Graham Huber that compares WordPress and ExpressionEngine in terms of how content is organized and some major features, including the number of security advisories (the PDF states 175 for WordPress vs. 2 for EE).

This type of content would be a helpful addition to the Pro Network. Many EE professionals would benefit from being able to log in to the Pro Network and access documents they need to help support their case for why ExpressionEngine is the best choice.

Read the entire PDF: WordPress vs ExpressionEngine

Posted on Feb 23, 2012 by Ryan Irelan

Filed Under: ExpressionEngine 2

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Posted by Gabriel Dan on 2013-03-02 15:11:21 Mike I don't think you can go too wrong really up to a point with scalability (large traffic sites need bespoke build or advanced engineering really that separate the data layers and optimise performance). As long as you pick one or two platforms that you learn the inside and out of then you will be able to create pretty much all you need. I do find that I have to prepare a client for a cost for plugins etc with EE which saves time. I have written a few of my own but when you are on tighter deadlines there are usually cheap enough plugins that will do the job. However I find the cost of purchasing quite a few on a site (I would say and average of around ten) stacks up. I like EE but I can't recommend for low cost projects if you are not passing the cost of the elements onto a client. It's worth recognising that there is a learning curve to any project but wordpress and ee have the lowest in my opinion. Drupal I have attempted to get under the hood numerous times and given up due to pressure of deadlines. I do recognise however it's worth continuing with as it has support for useful tools such as Solr.
Posted by Ray Mosley on 2012-11-08 05:41:52 Ray - thought so. I only came across expressengine as a mate of mine is on version 1.x and php on his server was upgraded to php 5.3 - and now is EE website is bust, just in the process of upgrading for him. I am / was looking into Seblod as a CCK on Joomla , as well as going through the pain barrier that is Drupal, and now I've come across EE so will have a play with this as well. I guess I need to find the ONE platform and then stick with it. Any thoughts welcome.... Cheers Mike
Posted by MikeAllen on 2012-11-07 14:52:04 Whoops no I meant the one reason I can even use wordpress as a CMS now. Must have typed that on my phone.
Posted by Ray Mosley on 2012-11-07 13:54:19 FAO Ray "http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/ is the single hands down reason I never use WP for CMS work at the minute" Are you that is correct , dont you mean it is the ONE reason you choose WP as a CMS ?
Posted by MikeAllen on 2012-11-07 12:24:29 http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/ is the single hands down reason I never use WP for CMS work at the minute. Until now I didn't know about the advanced custom fields but I didn't like handing over a "content" field or messy UI for clients to manage their content with. If it's not intuitive then it's not really going to work and therefore EE held that big advantage for me. The second thing that both have issues with is scalability for large traffic websites. Not a major problem on the whole but the looping of mysql queries needs either heavy caching or some way to abstract some of the core data interactions that are happening under the hood. For the majority of projects this isn't a stumbling block. Now I know it's possible to create a better admin interface for Wordpress it becomes more of an option as an actual CMS.
Posted by Ray Mosley on 2012-06-16 17:00:02 Totally agree with Wes on all points - we use WordPress and EE and it completely depends on the project, clients trust us to make the right decision on which platform to use.
Posted by Jez Swinscoe on 2012-02-24 15:15:41 Thanks for the information, Wes. I'm going to point this out in the original post. > As the website developer, the client should have the confidence in you to make the best choice for them. Should, yes, but that isn't always the case for everyone. The landscape of web projects is wide and there are challenges many have in determining the CMS that others never encounter. That's something to keep in mind.
Posted by Ryan Irelan on 2012-02-23 11:53:29 I've worked extensively in both platforms and I just wanted to say a couple of things: 1) WordPress can support multiple sites via a network installation. http://codex.wordpress.org/Create_A_Network 2) WordPress is capable of having multiple channels. They are called custom post types. http://codex.wordpress.org/Post_Types 3) WordPress custom fields are native, but there isn't a great UI for them. Why? I'm not sure. But this is a great solution: http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/ 4) In your theme, it is possible to integrate CodeIgniter to utilize loading models, views, controllers, helpers, etc. However, it's best to use the native WP methods interact with the database. 5) Cost of support? $15,000 (WP) vs included (EE). I think this is a gross exaggeration, being that EE support is not enterprise level and WP support is, for that price. Both have extensive forums that are active. I've found that StackOverflow and Google is actually the best support system for both platforms. 6) Relating data in WP can be a bitch. EE wins. 7) The template hierarchy in WP is badass. WP wins. http://codex.wordpress.org/Template_Hierarchy 8) That security advisories count numbers are greatly skewed b/c they are including WP plugins and no EE add-ons. I'm willing to be that a lot of EE add-ons also present some level of insecurity. Plus there are a ton more add-ons for WP and EE, albeit the quality of code in EE add-ons are far superior and much cleaner. I'm not saying that historically WP's track record is clean, but the source of that stat is skewed. 9) Membership, forums & wiki - native (EE) vs plugins (WP). Personally, I've only ever had one site that used forums and a handful that extensively use membership in EE in a way that WP cannot handle. Wiki? Meh. It should be cut from the EE core in my opinion. Forums for EE are a bitch anyways, even if they are native. I haven't really heard of anyone having an enjoyable experience with them...ever. Also, WP comes with menu management (a la NavEE - http://codex.wordpress.org/Appearance_Menus_Screen ), Widget Management and a feature rich WYSIWYG...natively. 10) Not mentioned - caching (this should be a biggie). EE fairly good caching options natively and via add-ons. WP has transients and caching via plugins too. Caching for both EE and WP work well for me. http://codex.wordpress.org/Transients_API ================== This is my point: WP vs EE is not the comparison you should have to "sell" to clients. WP or EE is the argument that should be made, that both are viable options. As the website developer, the client should have the confidence in you to make the best choice for them. The best choice for them will probably be what you are more comfortable with. So don't be afraid to tell them you prefer EE, but don't be uneducated about WP or you might end up looking like a fool. Worse, don't let outdated PDF's like this circulate within the EE community without having correct facts, or you make us look like a community of fools.
Posted by Wes on 2012-02-23 11:49:09 To me, that would help even the playing field so people compete on their previous work. EllisLab (or whoever created the docs) gives everyone access to the same docs and information.
Posted by Ryan Irelan on 2012-02-23 11:20:43 One of the best documents I have for selling EE to clients is the EE client guide from Headspace http://headspacedesign.ca/index.php/blog/entry/the-expressionengine-2-client-guide-is-here/ I include this in all project proposals now to show clients the potential of EE. I agree though, having a Pro Network library would be super useful, but then again, a lot of Pro Networkers are competing against one another for work.
Posted by Steven Grant on 2012-02-23 11:13:44 It was new news to me. :) I hadn't seen the PDF before and I agree that the comparison isn't perfect. It'd be nice to have a library of documents like this that people can use to help "sell" EE.
Posted by Ryan Irelan on 2012-02-23 10:57:22 This is really, really old news, I even commented on the original thread back in october 2010. http://wpcandy.com/thinks/about-the-wp-vs-ee-pdf It's apples vs. oranges I'm afraid, WP is an awesome tool for some projects, EE for others. You also can't deny that with every new release WP is adding features to make it more of a cms, while in other aspects EE is still catching up (e.g. WP has had a native WYSIWYG editor like forever).
Posted by Erwin Heiser on 2012-02-23 10:55:21 Unfortunately that appears to be a very WordPress bias PDF. That's the problem with most of those the person who does them most likely uses one CMS rather than both pretty equally and twists each item. Such as when comparing support, they say included versus 15k a year. Which is comparing Apple's and Oranges. The 15K is top notch enterprise support. For the average person, support is free on both through the EE Forums or the WP Forums and sites. The difference being that WP has such a larger base that finding answers in my experience has been incredibly easier in WordPress. I mean WP even has it's own Stack Overflow, where I can get my answers in a matter of minutes. Where is with EE it might go weeks and only get a couple responses from people who are just guessing. I think ExpressionEngine is kickass and WordPress. And there are lot of things EE does better than WP and Vice Versus. But this PDFs are pretty worthless in their comparison unless they feature the one you are trying to persuade your client with.
Posted by Christopher on 2012-02-23 10:38:10 I second the authors opionion that WP sucks, but EE isn't suitable as a CMS as other systems.
Posted by Holger on 2012-02-23 10:33:44

Holger — 10:33 on 02.23.2012

I second the authors opionion that WP sucks, but EE isn’t suitable as a CMS as other systems.

Christopher — 10:38 on 02.23.2012

Unfortunately that appears to be a very WordPress bias PDF. That’s the problem with most of those the person who does them most likely uses one CMS rather than both pretty equally and twists each item.

Such as when comparing support, they say included versus 15k a year. Which is comparing Apple’s and Oranges. The 15K is top notch enterprise support. For the average person, support is free on both through the EE Forums or the WP Forums and sites. The difference being that WP has such a larger base that finding answers in my experience has been incredibly easier in WordPress. I mean WP even has it’s own Stack Overflow, where I can get my answers in a matter of minutes. Where is with EE it might go weeks and only get a couple responses from people who are just guessing.

I think ExpressionEngine is kickass and WordPress. And there are lot of things EE does better than WP and Vice Versus. But this PDFs are pretty worthless in their comparison unless they feature the one you are trying to persuade your client with.

Erwin Heiser — 10:55 on 02.23.2012

This is really, really old news, I even commented on the original thread back in october 2010. http://wpcandy.com/thinks/about-the-wp-vs-ee-pdf
It’s apples vs. oranges I’m afraid, WP is an awesome tool for some projects, EE for others.
You also can’t deny that with every new release WP is adding features to make it more of a cms, while in other aspects EE is still catching up (e.g. WP has had a native WYSIWYG editor like forever).

Ryan Irelan — 10:57 on 02.23.2012

It was new news to me. I hadn’t seen the PDF before and I agree that the comparison isn’t perfect. It’d be nice to have a library of documents like this that people can use to help “sell” EE.

Steven Grant — 11:13 on 02.23.2012

One of the best documents I have for selling EE to clients is the EE client guide from Headspace http://headspacedesign.ca/index.php/blog/entry/the-expressionengine-2-client-guide-is-here/

I include this in all project proposals now to show clients the potential of EE.

I agree though, having a Pro Network library would be super useful, but then again, a lot of Pro Networkers are competing against one another for work.

Ryan Irelan — 11:20 on 02.23.2012

To me, that would help even the playing field so people compete on their previous work. EllisLab (or whoever created the docs) gives everyone access to the same docs and information.

Wes — 11:49 on 02.23.2012

I’ve worked extensively in both platforms and I just wanted to say a couple of things:

1) WordPress can support multiple sites via a network installation. http://codex.wordpress.org/Create_A_Network

2) WordPress is capable of having multiple channels. They are called custom post types. http://codex.wordpress.org/Post_Types

3) WordPress custom fields are native, but there isn’t a great UI for them. Why? I’m not sure. But this is a great solution: http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/

4) In your theme, it is possible to integrate CodeIgniter to utilize loading models, views, controllers, helpers, etc. However, it’s best to use the native WP methods interact with the database.

5) Cost of support? $15,000 (WP) vs included (EE). I think this is a gross exaggeration, being that EE support is not enterprise level and WP support is, for that price. Both have extensive forums that are active. I’ve found that StackOverflow and Google is actually the best support system for both platforms.

6) Relating data in WP can be a bitch. EE wins.

7) The template hierarchy in WP is badass. WP wins. http://codex.wordpress.org/Template_Hierarchy

8) That security advisories count numbers are greatly skewed b/c they are including WP plugins and no EE add-ons. I’m willing to be that a lot of EE add-ons also present some level of insecurity. Plus there are a ton more add-ons for WP and EE, albeit the quality of code in EE add-ons are far superior and much cleaner. I’m not saying that historically WP’s track record is clean, but the source of that stat is skewed.

9) Membership, forums & wiki - native (EE) vs plugins (WP). Personally, I’ve only ever had one site that used forums and a handful that extensively use membership in EE in a way that WP cannot handle. Wiki? Meh. It should be cut from the EE core in my opinion. Forums for EE are a bitch anyways, even if they are native. I haven’t really heard of anyone having an enjoyable experience with them…ever. Also, WP comes with menu management (a la NavEE - http://codex.wordpress.org/Appearance_Menus_Screen ), Widget Management and a feature rich WYSIWYG…natively.

10) Not mentioned - caching (this should be a biggie). EE fairly good caching options natively and via add-ons. WP has transients and caching via plugins too. Caching for both EE and WP work well for me. http://codex.wordpress.org/Transients_API

==================

This is my point:

WP vs EE is not the comparison you should have to “sell” to clients. WP or EE is the argument that should be made, that both are viable options.

As the website developer, the client should have the confidence in you to make the best choice for them. The best choice for them will probably be what you are more comfortable with. So don’t be afraid to tell them you prefer EE, but don’t be uneducated about WP or you might end up looking like a fool. Worse, don’t let outdated PDF’s like this circulate within the EE community without having correct facts, or you make us look like a community of fools.

Ryan Irelan — 11:53 on 02.23.2012

Thanks for the information, Wes. I’m going to point this out in the original post.

> As the website developer, the client should have the confidence in you to make the best choice for them.

Should, yes, but that isn’t always the case for everyone. The landscape of web projects is wide and there are challenges many have in determining the CMS that others never encounter. That’s something to keep in mind.

Jez Swinscoe — 15:15 on 02.24.2012

Totally agree with Wes on all points - we use WordPress and EE and it completely depends on the project, clients trust us to make the right decision on which platform to use.

Ray Mosley — 17:00 on 06.16.2012

http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/ is the single hands down reason I never use WP for CMS work at the minute. Until now I didn’t know about the advanced custom fields but I didn’t like handing over a “content” field or messy UI for clients to manage their content with. If it’s not intuitive then it’s not really going to work and therefore EE held that big advantage for me.

The second thing that both have issues with is scalability for large traffic websites. Not a major problem on the whole but the looping of mysql queries needs either heavy caching or some way to abstract some of the core data interactions that are happening under the hood. For the majority of projects this isn’t a stumbling block.

Now I know it’s possible to create a better admin interface for Wordpress it becomes more of an option as an actual CMS.

MikeAllen — 12:24 on 11.07.2012

FAO Ray

“http://www.advancedcustomfields.com/ is the single hands down reason I never use WP for CMS work at the minute”

Are you that is correct , dont you mean it is the ONE reason you choose WP as a CMS ?

Ray Mosley — 13:54 on 11.07.2012

Whoops no I meant the one reason I can even use wordpress as a CMS now. Must have typed that on my phone.

MikeAllen — 14:52 on 11.07.2012

Ray - thought so. I only came across expressengine as a mate of mine is on version 1.x and php on his server was upgraded to php 5.3 - and now is EE website is bust, just in the process of upgrading for him.

I am / was looking into Seblod as a CCK on Joomla , as well as going through the pain barrier that is Drupal, and now I’ve come across EE so will have a play with this as well.

I guess I need to find the ONE platform and then stick with it.

Any thoughts welcome….
Cheers
Mike

Ray Mosley — 05:41 on 11.08.2012

Mike

I don’t think you can go too wrong really up to a point with scalability (large traffic sites need bespoke build or advanced engineering really that separate the data layers and optimise performance).

As long as you pick one or two platforms that you learn the inside and out of then you will be able to create pretty much all you need. I do find that I have to prepare a client for a cost for plugins etc with EE which saves time. I have written a few of my own but when you are on tighter deadlines there are usually cheap enough plugins that will do the job. However I find the cost of purchasing quite a few on a site (I would say and average of around ten) stacks up.

I like EE but I can’t recommend for low cost projects if you are not passing the cost of the elements onto a client.

It’s worth recognising that there is a learning curve to any project but wordpress and ee have the lowest in my opinion. Drupal I have attempted to get under the hood numerous times and given up due to pressure of deadlines. I do recognise however it’s worth continuing with as it has support for useful tools such as Solr.

Gabriel Dan — 15:11 on 03.02.2013

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